"Hi, this message is for Alexander [surname]. My name is Sean [surname], I am part of the Elders quorum presidency for the [location] branch of the LDS church. Please call me back at [phone number]."I don't know you. You clearly don't know me. You didn't even make up a good reason for me to call you back. What the hell kind of message is this?
So I saved the number in my phone under "Elders Quorum Toolbag" because of his douchey tone of voice and waited to see if he ever bothered calling back. So far, he hasn't,
At work yesterday, I happened to glance at the name on a customer's credit card receipt. It was Sean [surname]. It's not a common surname, either. I've never known anyone with this name before. Curious to meet this Elders Quorum Toolbag, I made sure I was the one to finish the order personally. To my astonishment, this guy turned out to be one of my regulars.
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| *cue shocking revelation sound effect...fade to black...eerie titlecard...roll credits* |
Listening to the message again, the voice is a match too. It's gotta be the same dude. This guy's been secretly spying on me all along! Waltzing his wife and children in to my restaurant a few times a week so he can keep an eye on the apostate! Hiding his identity from me so that I'd never suspect I was under surveillance! How despicable!
I'm honestly not sure if he knows. It's not like I've ever caught the guy eyeing me up suspiciously or anything. But I'm sure there's a little bit of basic information about me bouncing around in certain circles, so it's very possible that some members of the branch know where I work.
Now I'll just have to pay closer attention next time I see him. Because if I know who he is and he doesn't know who I am, this could be fun.
Wow, that's interesting and weird. Being raised Mormon, I totally believe this is possible. It's the kind of "work" members are taught to do.
ReplyDeleteHere's an idea. You can download the LDS Tools app. You have to create an LDS account, but you can see the names and addresses of everybody in your stake. You'll have to track down your member number to access that info. Some members upload their pictures as well. You may start recognizing the names and faces of others.
I'm really curious how this will play out. If that is what he's doing, It really is creepy, cult-like behavior.
Yeah, it's pretty creepy...either that or he just likes the food.
DeleteYour idea with the LDS Tools app sounds really fun. But I have no good way of getting my membership number. I could ask my parents, but they'll probably want to know what I need it for.
Members are not taught by Prophets to tap into privacy, accuse members of wrongful things, nor has the Prophet spoken to condone chasing members out of their ward. But, this has happened to multiple persons in the ward I am in. The bishop, used to come to my home late at night and alone as home teacher...is this acceptable? I have never had such a evil unChristlike behavior and he lies about me and threatens me now because I wrote a letter to the Church Presidency and he was corrected. He then sat in front of me in Sunday school and said I will get revenge. He also got missionaries to baptize disabled members saying just stop smoking today and you can smoke again tomorrow.
DeleteMany got baptized but were not befriended and never came again....but he did get credit. His ward also grew from bringing in wealthy LDS families from out of state....his ward is like the story in the BOM...the poor are not allowed in Willy Thomas's ward. Go narcissism go!!! That is his problem....big time.
Ick. To steal a common Utah-ism, that all sounds really grody.
DeleteThe usual explanation is that the church is perfect but its members aren't but I think it's also true that the church culture can directly and indirectly breed and foster certain types of totally unacceptable behavior.
I hope you're no longer subjected to that environment. If you are, I hope you can find a way to extricate yourself from it.
I actually think it's most likely that he likes the food, unless he travels long distances to get there.
ReplyDeleteGenealogy is the angle to get the number from your parents. You ask a question about an ancestor, like what year they were born. The Family Search site comes up in the conversation. You get interested in creating an account to learn more. Voila, you need the number. The LDS login works for all of the accounts now. If you don't get the number from your dad, you'll have to get it from your ward clerk, and that would definitely put you on the radar if you aren't already.
I have never had or demonstrated any interest in my genealogy whatsoever. I don't think I'd be able to pull that one off! And my parents now both have family-related-related callings, so I don't think I'd be able to stomach engaging them in a genealogical discussion.
DeleteI don't suppose membership numbers are on patriarchal blessings, are they? Because I still have that somewhere...I'll have to look later on when I have time. Just in case.
Haha. No you won't want to get them started on that. Plus, unless your dad is still in leadership with access to the computer, he may not be able to gain access to that number either, come to think of it. My kid's numbers show on my LDS Tools account, but not the one who is no longer in my ward.
DeleteNot sure about the number being on blessings. I found mine on a temple recommend a few years ago when I created my LDS account and was still attending.
If not, your only choice is the ward membership clerk, and I don't see how that would be worth it.
Yeah, I just checked my patriarchal blessing. No membership number. I might be out of luck.
DeleteIt's too bad, though, because it was a really cool idea. I'll keep my eyes open for other opportunities to score my member number.
Sorry, This just reminds me of the very old pop hit from 1966, Secret agent man by Johnny Rivers:
ReplyDeleteChorus:
Secret agent man, secret agent man
They've given you a number and taken away your name
But in your case you have a number, and if a former temple going person, a "new" name!
I never made it past baptisms for the dead, but I guess you could say that the word "inactive" has been added to my name....
DeleteI have a friend who's family has been inactive in the church for a very long time, she was visited by missionaries a while back trying to get them to come back to the church, she's moved adresses (states) quite a few times since her family went inactive...they obviously never told the church they moved let alone gave them a forwarding address...I've come to wonder if they have secret spies watching all their inactive "members"
ReplyDeleteI think the word "spy" is overstating it in most cases. I know my parents gave the church the address to my first place when I moved out. I asked them not to do that anymore and I believe they've honored that. But that doesn't explain how the church has my current address and my phone number. I'm pretty sure members are urged to come forward with any information about inactives, so it's possible bits and pieces came back to my home branch through various sources.
DeleteI like calling it spying, but to be fair that makes it sound more sinister and malicious than it usually is.
Oh well. Maybe someday we'll finally fall off their grid for good!
You think the word spy is overstating it....but I have a xbishop and current bishop who have tapping devices in my home...by phone and internet. They say it is to protect my child, I ask, from who...the church bishop who has outwardly spoken of getting vengeance on me because I spoke about his revelation of cleansing the ward of poor and needy?
DeleteUh, that is not the works of Christ but of the pharisees and sadducees. I still go but for one year I have had no visiting teachers or home teachers...the talk given by bishops counselor in new ward is "there is a individual here that has apostatized." Now, with threats like we are tapping into this persons home is to protect the child....or this person is experiencing this for her eternal good. Haha! The old bishop told me he would move me anywhere I want to go.....why can't I stay here does it create apostacy or child abuse? Lastly is it a bishops right to tap into my phone and home and since this is illegal....what other illegal things will the bishops try...murder?
Wow. Obviously none of that stuff is okay. People who do this kind of thing should be ashamed of themselves and certainly shouldn't pretend to be acting on God's behalf.
DeleteWell, I had a woman come to me two days ago and tell me the things they have been doing to is known to all in this stake. Followed by....but the stake president has no part in it, he is a good man, I have a testimony of him. I said to her, my current bishop told me he did not want to do what they are doing to me but the stake presidency is forcing him. Oh, so when the facts arise the big powerful stake leaders flee!
DeleteThe individual then told me that there is problems now and to go into hiding. Ending with we all think Willy Thomas is weird trying to take your kid and paying old men to offer you sex so he can call you wicked.
Now if that is not unlike the Savior, what is, and all these people submissively obeying and helping the bishop do these acts.
Actually, they do have a department at the Church Office building in Salt Lake specifically tasked with finding people who have moved. I actually spoke with a guy who works in that department last Summer. I've forgotten the exact name of the department, but it seems like it was called "Finding Lost Members" or something like that. I asked him how they do it. They usually first call relatives. They'll talk with their bishop from the previous ward. They also do internet searches. I'm sure there were other methods, but those are the ones I remember. They use a lot of volunteers like church service missionaries to do the work. Then, once they find these "lost sheep," they send the records to the local wards. From there, bishops, Elder's Quorum Presidents, and missionaries pay them a visit. I think it's very hard for people to "fall off the grid." Social media, and the internet, has made finding people even easier. The part that sucks about it is that these are pretty much all people who do not want to be bothered or found by the church. If they wanted to, they could very easily do a quick search or make a phone call and find the nearest ward. I think the church should just leave them alone.
ReplyDeleteI forgot about that. I've heard that somewhere...maybe here...maybe from you...I don't know. I guess that means there might be a sinister, Big-Brother-esque element to all of this after all.
DeleteI've been thinking a lot lately about resigning, but I'm honestly not expecting that to stop my occasional run-ins with the Mormon antennae.
I actually think this group is more there to keep the membership records as accurate as possible. They don't want a family on the rolls of a ward in Payson, Utah when they actually live in Ohio or something.
DeleteI don't remember if I mentioned it before or not. That conversation took place around June or July in 2014.
The spy group, that is sinister and Big-Brother-esque is the Strengthening the Members Committee. Google it. Watch the video on YouTube of Holland trying to dodge questions about it from the BBC.
When you read, or listen to podcasts, about bloggers/writers who have been ex-ed, the story is very similar. Their Stake President calls them in about their blogging but knows little about it. Their orders came from an Area Authority or higher. Then at the disciplinary council, he'll read from stacks of printouts/evidence against the blogger. However, they still aren't very familiar with it. They just go off of "talking points." I believe those printouts come from somewhere else, "higher up," and are given to the SP at which point he's told to get rid of the member. One reason not to resign is to see what they come up with at the disciplinary council. In your case, if they do a thorough job, it could be a few inches thick. I don't think any SP would take the time to compile and read that much material, but I do think there are plenty of people in the church who would compile it, make a complaint, write talking points, etc.
Here's the YouTube video of Elder Holland discussing the Strengthening the Members Committee with the guy from the BBC:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNHM7I1WJIk
Go to the 3:45 mark to learn about that committee. It's made up of some former government agents who investigate people. I think the church spokesman probably doesn't know much about it, but I think Holland isn't being that open and honest about it.
Then, go to 8:45, where Holland get's ticked off about the church being called a cult and then at the end makes his famous "this man doesn't seem like a dodo" comment.
Somehow I missed this comment.
DeleteI've seen that piece before, and Holland's performance in it is just...awful. He doesn't do well. I feel like that's part of the reason why he hasn't been on camera as much lately. He looked like an idiot, he explained things poorly...no wonder the church has gone with Oaks and Bednar and Christofferson lately for their PR stuff.