tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4172451149432147710.post3765865791730566311..comments2023-05-10T10:41:32.689-04:00Comments on Against the Greater Light: Notes on the Sunday Evening SessionAlexhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14724409661360473452noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4172451149432147710.post-28208083261268592242018-04-02T18:58:08.152-04:002018-04-02T18:58:08.152-04:00Well, I certainly have no interest in following th...Well, I certainly have no interest in following that kind of prophet!<br /><br />I'd forgotten that Harold B. Lee quote referenced disabilities because it's usually cited as racist or America-centric. Not that any of that is okay either. I think church teachings have evolved positively since those days. In my home ward, we had a mentally disabled adult who was eventually permitted to bless the sacrament, and the only discussions I ever heard about the reason for his condition was the free-pass-to-heaven thing. That's much, much kinder than what Lee said generations ago.<br /><br />Not that it makes it any less wrong for disabled children to be left behind in the church. Not that it makes it any less rude for someone to tell a parent of a severely disabled child how blessed they are that their child is automatically destined for exaltation. I think Mormonism has a big problem with a perspective that's so eternal and so forward looking that members can so easily overlook the needs and the struggles of the present.<br /><br />I wonder what the rationale was behind the stake president not allowing your son to be a missionary. A volunteer is worth ten pressed men, right?Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14724409661360473452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4172451149432147710.post-66545409017769413852018-04-02T15:45:25.173-04:002018-04-02T15:45:25.173-04:00Amen to your earlier comments.
No you weren't...Amen to your earlier comments.<br /><br />No you weren't in any way insensitive. He would totally understand except we don't bring it up. We also don't go to the weddings. We've missed several. I hadn't told anybody that was the reason, because it's only one reason. We couldn't stand paying the church money anymore and also can't stand attending, so we no longer have recommends. If you don't pay, you can't go. I actually just recently told told my brother we wouldn't be going to his daughters sealing because the church won't let my son attend. <br /><br />When my son turned 19, he really wanted to go on a mission but obviously couldn't. We mentioned to the ward that he would love to serve as a ward missionary, but the stake president said no. He had some bad experiences in the singles ward he started attending, so we eventually stopped having him go. Unless parents are fairly demanding to militant, I've found kids with disabilities are typically left out of things in the church. <br /><br />Yes, you would think he would be the most worthy to go. I agree. I'm glad you brought up the Automatic Celestial Kingdom teaching. Can you imagine how hurtful it can be when the parents of a child with some severe disability hears from another member about what a blessing it is that the child will automatically go to the Celestial Kingdom? Some believe that the valiant spirits were born disabled so Satan can't get to them. Some, like President Harold B Lee taught, that those less valiant in their previous life were penalized with "physical limitations" which I read as disabilities.<br /><br />"This privilege of obtaining a mortal body on this earth is seemingly so priceless that those in the spirit world, even though unfaithful or not valient, were undoubtedly permitted to take mortal bodies although under penalty of racial or physical or nationalistic limitations...." (Decisions for Successful Living pp 164-65)<br /><br />Am I reading it wrong when I think it says if you weren't as valiant in the pre-existence you would be born with racial limitations, physical limitations, or geographical limitations? So you may be born with cursed skin, a disability, or in a crappy country? This is BS. Now let's suppose he was "speaking as a man" when he said that. Do we really want to follow a "prophet" who personally believes crap like that?<br /><br />NearKolobitenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4172451149432147710.post-47036053681590107852018-04-02T13:22:19.077-04:002018-04-02T13:22:19.077-04:00That's something I hadn't considered.
I...That's something I hadn't considered. <br /><br />I waited outside during both my sister's weddings, too, although that's because I was an apostate, so I understood why. Not that it should be okay to separate families on one of the most important days in a family member's life, but I get where they're coming from.<br /><br />Your son, though, is a different story. Can I ask...does he understand? Like, I wasn't thrilled about being left out, but I get why it happened. And obviously his exclusion is unfair, but does he understand why he's being excluded, or at least the doctrinal rationale behind it? If he doesn't, that seems even more cruel.<br /><br />...especially considering the teaching that those with mental disabilities aren't accountable for their actions and are headed for the Celestial Kingdom. You'd think that would make him more worthy to be at a sealing ceremony than anybody else.<br /><br />I apologize if any way I worded that was insensitive. It wasn't meant to be!Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14724409661360473452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4172451149432147710.post-55963779372413445512018-04-02T13:16:53.202-04:002018-04-02T13:16:53.202-04:00No, it's okay because they have a hotline for ...No, it's okay because they have a hotline for bishops to call!<br /><br />Just, kidding, obviously. I think the way church hides abuse is worse than the way the church hides its history. Lying to people about how Joseph Smith translated the plates is one thing, but trying to protect those who abuse, blame those who are abused, and pretending like the whole thing never happened hurts real people emotionally, psychologically, and physically who are IN THE CHURCH, RIGHT NOW. There's no "you should have read the article in the Ensign 20 years ago that mentions the rock in the hat" kind of excuse. If you claim to speak for God, you shouldn't protect your moral authority by covering up abuse. You should protect it by uncovering abuse, punishing it, and leading the charge to make sure it can't happen again.Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14724409661360473452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4172451149432147710.post-67266865336626388212018-04-02T12:02:50.066-04:002018-04-02T12:02:50.066-04:00The marriage experience is NOT the same for everyo...The marriage experience is NOT the same for everyone. I get what he's trying to say about the words of the ceremony itself, but the experience is and should be more than that. It should include being surrounded by family and friends, ALL of them. When my wife and I were sealed, none of her siblings, friends or cousins were allowed to attend, because they were too young to hold temple recommends. I was too young to attend my sister's wedding. I had to wait outside. I have a mentally disabled son who will never get a temple recommend and should not attend anyway. The whole endowment would freak him out, and he would probably never stop talking about it. He has been old enough to go for several years and worthy as well. He is not allowed to attend sealings which means he missed his uncle and aunt's wedding as well as multiple cousin's weddings. He is being excluded not because he is unworthy but only because he has a disability. That's wrong. NearKolobitenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4172451149432147710.post-36538826253431388122018-04-02T11:55:28.079-04:002018-04-02T11:55:28.079-04:00I wonder how the YW are going to take to ministeri...I wonder how the YW are going to take to ministering. They may have felt left out not getting to pass the sacrament, but they have no idea how much it sucks to go home teaching and to gather fast offerings even when you live in a ward that spans about 4 blocks by 4 blocks in Utah. Then if the family they're visiting doesn't do so well or their companion isn't so faithful, they're going to get the added guilt. This could backfire.<br /><br />"Nonconsentual immorality", huh? Is he trying to shield the ears of young people who may be listening by using coded words? It's sexual assault, rape, molesting, forced and unwanted sexual contact, etc. The way the church has handled sexual abuse is one of the main reasons why my wife, my children, and I no longer attend church. I've heard people bear testimony and say that even if it weren't true, they would still go, because the teachings are good for their family. I disagree on both points. Well, the teachings of the church are NOT true, and a church that provides cover for sexual predators is NOT good. I could give you at least a dozen separate examples right now of family members and friends that have suffered because of the church's unwillingness to take on this issue. It's abhorrent and inexcusable.NearKolobitenoreply@blogger.com